All,
Alright, this is what we came for, right? Okay, you have no idea what I'm talking about, so let me put you on to it: when I lost my mind and jumped into 28mm miniatures it was initially just to have a few of them in order to play some very small-scale skirmish fights, maybe five on five up to a full squad per side (which is how it's shaking out, but more on that later), but that was it. Then the megalomania hit and my next objective(s) became two-fold: first, to facilitate big 'Army-men' style fights with/between my two sons, and second, to foster some solo platoon-level games driven by Joe Legan's "Platoon Forward" solo engine. I really, really, really wanted to play some character-driven platoon-level games, following a multitude of different platoons including, but not limited to:
-US Army in the Med
-US Army in NWE
-US Army in the Philippines (early war Bataan)
-US Army in New Guinea
-US Paras in Normandy and Market Garden
-USMC all over the Pacific
-Brits in Fall of France
-Brits in North Africa and the Med
-Brits in/around Caen
-Brit Paras in Normandy
-Brit Paras in Market Garden
-Brit Commandos (not sure where)
-Aussies in Greece
-Aussies in North Africa
-Aussies in New Guinea
-Wehrmacht in early war
-Wehrmacht in North Africa
-Wehrmacht in Ost Front
-Fallschirmjager in early war
-Fallschirmjager in the Med
-French Foreign Legion in Indochina
-French Foreign Legion in Africa (in the 1990s)
So, sorry for the long list, and I'm sure there's more, but the point I'm trying to make is I am VERY interested in this type of gaming, just need to get it mapped out and get going. But here's the issue: whilst Platoon Forward is a great solo engine, you still need a set of rules. In terms of platoon-level rules, I've tried quite a few. Off the top of my head:
-Chain of Command
-Bolt Action
-Battlegroup
-Combat Patrol
-No End in Sight
-Troops, Weapons, & Tactics
-5Core Company Command (which each stand being a team vice a squad)
-Force on Force
Probably some others I'm forgetting about. In any case, I've given quite a few rulesets a run out, and while I've had some good games with them, none of them were of the bright, shining, "this is EXACTLY what I'm looking for" variety. So I found myself perusing the internet and came across an old favorite of mine, No End in Sight, which re-stoked my interest. I'd played quite a few games using these, with my US Marine platoon in the (fictional) Philippines campaign, and on my Cuba Libre blog where I was playing using the characters from the movie "Platoon," so I decided to give it another shot with my 28mm troops. It didn't go great; I don't really blame the rules, it was more about the size of the fight that irked me.
The US right, with 2nd Squad moving up and the mortar team set up below the ruins.
The German MG team on the hill (bottom left) and the 50mm mortar team (center) open fire on 1st Squad (top right), pinning several men.
Which draws more react fire from 1st Squad (bottom left)...
And spot another MG-42 team in a nearby field.
The German MG team (bottom left) doesn't score any hits, but the Lt and and both members of the bazooka team (far right) are all pinned. At this point the Lieutenant activates again and it's time to spot that Type A blind in the ruin at bottom center; I roll it up on the applicable Platoon Forward chart and... it's another full rifle squad with Platoon Commander!
I begin moving Germans into the ruined house, thinking about how I'm going to deal with them (I guess bring on the reserve 3rd Squad and ATG, let the ATG pound the house while 3rd Squad runs up the road in its halftrack and dismounts straight into close combat), but my heart's just not in it. As I'm looking at the photos I think it doesn't look too bad, but playing the game, it all felt so congested, too many troops in such a small place, no real room for maneuver, just kind of line everyone up and have a dice-rolling fest. And I've been playing for three hours, and I haven't even finished the first turn!!!! To be fair, I've had some really good activation die rolls, which has allowed me to just sit there and punish the Germans (for example, when I used the 60mm mortar team I passed four straight die rolls, which is what allowed me to pound that German rifle squad in the road into oblivion).
With these 28mm troops a rifle squad is just a big blob of men, doesn't look right and doesn't feel right, you just mob them forward into LOS and roll dice back and forth until someone gets put out of the fight, no real decision making.
So I threw in the towel, not going to come back to NEIS with 28mm troops, might not come back to 28mm troops for platoon-sized fights. My ginormous investment in 28mm figures and terrain is beginning to look like a ginormous mistake. It's hilarious; just a minute ago I was thinking 'these 28mm troops are awesome, they make my 15mm troops superfluous, I need to get rid of them,' and now it's looking/feeling like the reverse is true, and that I should just keep a handful of 28mm troops around for squad-level skirmish fights.
The search for a platoon-level solution continues...
V/R,
Jack







































That is a real shame. I thought the troop density looked fine, 28s are really just big 20mm figures after all. Perhaps I'm overly used to us8 g oversize figures relative to the ground scale.When I was using my 15s with those WRG games I couldn't help thinking how tiny everything looked! You've obviously got an idea of what you want to achieve , so I'm sure you'll get therein the end.Did you have a look at Chain of Command? People seem to like hat for Platoon level fights.
ReplyDeleteMartin,
DeleteYeah, looking at the pics of the game, it looks fine to me, but playing it felt like a Napoleonic game, no room to maneuver at all. That’s funny about 15mm looking tiny; played two 15mm platoon-level fights on a 4’ x 4’ table, felt pretty good, lots of room to wander around and get into trouble.
Yes, I’ve played quite a few games of Chain of Command, most famously for KG Klink in Greece, for which I modded it up to company level. Chain of Command is kind of funny for me; I’ve had a lot of fun with them (and their very clever activation mechanic), but I have a mental hangup in that the activation system, while clever and fun, doesn’t make any sense to me (in terms of what it is simulating), but I suppose I should just get over myself because they’ve always been great games!
V/R,
Jack
I thought you were painting up the 28mm to do small platoon actions but you seem to have gone larger. I must admit I sometimes dream of getting into 15mm (or even 10/12mm) rather than 20mm but I have all the terrain I would have to get as well. 15mm looks great on smaller tables than 20mm. But in a few years I should be able to permanently have a table tennis setup and then 20mm all the way!
ReplyDeleteI thought the 28mm density looks fine but I can see that if you are used to 15mm on a similar sized table than 28mm is going to look huge. A real shame as those 28mm paintjobs are awesome. Keep them for smaller fights definitely.
And searching for rules that hit your sweet spot? lol. That is almost every wargamer's rule #1. Although you do seem to have a soft spot for the 5Core series (including 5MiN).
Shaun,
DeleteYessir, that was the plan with 28mm, then it just got out of hand. And your issue with 20mm is also part of my issue; I’ve spent a fortune on 28mm terrain and I still don’t have everything I need/already have in 15mm, so my counsel would absolutely be, DON’T DO IT!!!
Like I said to Martin, the 28mm game looked good in the photos, but felt like a Napoleonic game, just line up and shoot, no room for maneuver.
And no doubt, I’m certainly partial to 5Core. Even when I use other activation systems I still end up staying with their shooting/morale mechanics (Kill and Shock dice are just so quick and easy).
V/R,
Jack